You are here

29 posts / 0 new
Last post
Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture
;Fungus among us

I'm not saying it is hot and humid here in southwest Missouri, but in the 24 hours between milling and stacking for air drying, this sycamore sprouted an amazing amount of mold. I guess I'll have to sticker wood pretty much as it comes off the mill until cooler. Hickory is also bad this way.

eddiemac
eddiemac's picture

It's been an uncharacteristically wet June and early July in your (and my) part of the midwest, but not as hot as usual. I think if it was hotter, there might be less mold. I've given up on running the fans in my solar kiln until we get steady sun with temperatures in the 90's. Nice ray fleck on the second board up. I've never sawed sycamore but understand it can be very pretty when quarter-sawn. Do you have luck marketing hickory? I know it is on the market, but recently discussed the subject with a cabinet-maker who used it once and said "never again."

r.garrison1
r.garrison1's picture

I remember working on a house once where most of the trim was hickory. If I recall correctly, I had to pre-drill most of the holes because my nail gun wouldn't set the nails in the wood. Superb to shape, but tough to nail.

eddiemac
eddiemac's picture

I think he was complaining of difficulty at the shaper due to the hardness of the wood and the cost of replacing expensive shaper bits. I've got gobs of hickory where I live, but haven't used it for much besides firewood.

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

I sell a little hickory to custom woodworkers, but that's about it. Most of the rest goes onto the firewood pile. I had an infestation of powder post beetles that hitch hiked into the house on a bench I made from hickory, so until I get a way to heat treat it, it goes straight to the wood stove. It is a tough wood to saw, too, much like pecan.

Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.

Bill
Bill's picture

When it comes to stickers you end up with a very large no. of them and my experience has been make them all the same size to avoide sorting or getting them mixed up.

Bill

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

Interesting idea, but I've never had a problem with fungus using 3/4" tall stickers.  You'd be surprised how quickly the surface of the wood dries out and once that happens, there is no growth of fungus.

Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.

renckl
renckl's picture

I have been reading comments and this is first post. I have a LM2000 on a 40 acre tree farm in South Carolina. I saw pine, oak, hickory and black cherry. I grow black walnut. I also make rustic tables, benches and other furniture.When I saw I saw the slabs into stickers. I usually saw 3/4 or 1 inch for rustic furniture. Thus I saw the slabs 3/4 or 1 inch to make stickers 3/4 X 3/4" or 3/4 X 1". I can then sticker boards mostly with 3/4" stickers, but sometimes I saw a log to both thicknesses, so when I stack, if I have a  mix of 3/4" and 1" boards for a final layer or two, I can take a short 1 inch thick sticker to make it match height to add a 3/4 inch board beside the 1 " boards or vice versa. Just be sure you do not mix the two thicknesses in one layer. By sawing the 1" slabs to 3/4" thick stickers, I can easily turn it a quarter turn if I did put a 1" sticker in a 3/4" layer of boards.

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

Renckl, good plan.  Would love to see some photos of your furniture.  Do you have a web site?

Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.

DaveM
DaveM's picture

It's been one of the wettest summers I can ever remember here in Western NY.  I cut some 2" beech slabs & stacked & stickered it in my steel building / workshop.  I used 1" stickers & placed a fan in the near vicinity to facilitate some air flow.  After 2-days, I could have used a straight razor to shave the white mold off of them.  The tree was a blowover, but was not touching the ground.  I estimate it was down for about 6-months.   Anyone have any ideas on how to possibly avoid or at least diminish this ?

Bill
Bill's picture

Dave the maple I just cut a couple wks. ago did the same thing but was only 1" boards. By the time I cut the second one a few days ago the first one was drying out but I had flipped them every day for the first few days the fuzz was going. Yours being 2" thick may take a llittle longer for the surface to dry enough to check the mold.

DaveM
DaveM's picture

Baron....almost a bit too much information there.....sponges and all......

I had my steel building spray foamed this summer.  I am currently putting a wood burning stove in.  Just waiting for the permit from the code officer.  I am going to try stacking all the air dried lumber inside the workshop & getting it real warm inside for a few days.  I have several ceiling fans as well as a couple of regular fans & am hoping I can somewhat speed up the drying process by running the fans & keeping the stove stoked for a few days.  At the very least, it should curtail the beard growing contest some of the lumber has been having. smiley

DaveM
DaveM's picture

On the other hand...if I let the fuzz grow for an extended spell...do you guys think the slabs may develop some spalt if I did not let it go too far & turn the slab punky ?

Bill
Bill's picture

It may be worth a try Dave to set a few aside and see what happens but you'll have to remove the stickers and lay the boards on top of each other. It takes quite a while before they get punky but I'd sure keep an eye on them every mon. or so.

DaveM
DaveM's picture

Thanks Bill.  Good idea to remove the stickers & dead stack for a while.

Anyone have any thoughts about the "hot shop" idea ?

smithbr
smithbr's picture

Air moisture content is a function of temperature, so as you heat air it's relative humidity drops; so heating the air in the shop will promote drying by reducing the RH, in turn pulling moisture from the wood.  The trick is to remove the humidity from the air before letting the shop cool, to prevent the extracted moisture from condensing out all over, not to mention the rise in RH in the air in general as it cools.  When you have the shop up to temperature, run a dehumidifier flat out and extract as much of that water as possible.  drain it outside.  Keep it running as you lower the temperature, until you reach about 50 F.  At that point, the dehumidifier is at risk of freezeup, so you'll need to monitor it. 

Another way to get rid of that moist air is to vent it to the outdoors, allowing cooler outdoor air in for replacement.  Increases the amount of energy required to hold the temperature, but avoids the humidifier.  You can cycle the hot-cold air scenario repeatedly, and it should do a good job of pulling moisture from the wood - at the cost of the energy involved.

This is how we dry out our cottage at the end of a winter visit - heat the place up with a roaring fire (use short term wood, like a stack of dry kindling, so there isn't a long run-time), then open the windows and doors and do a complete air exchange with that sub-zero air.  Shut down the fire, keep exhausting until the place is cold, then close it up.  Noting worse than a cottage full of warm moisture-laden air buttoned up for the winter.  In the spring, you get that classic 'cottage' odor.

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

I've dead-stacked lumber and gotten some pretty nice spalting.  It works best on light colored woods like hickory, maple, ash, & sycamore.  I did a Google search, and Bora-Care is supposed to kill fungi, though I've never tried it.  Wouldn't hurt to use it to kill the bugs, too.  A lot of people use it.

Baron, you're right about less problem with decay in cool weather.  It takes warm temperatures and humidity for the fungus to grow.

Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

As long as you have the pile stickered, good air flow, and low humidity, the fungus will not spread, and the fungal action will stop when the wood gets down to around 15% moisture content.  If you try boric acid, let us know how it work.

Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.

Bill
Bill's picture

Never brought it up before now but the last maple I milled up had the same white fuzz on it the following day but by the time I remembered to bring a camera it had disappeared . From the log a made up a few doz. bowl blanks for the lathe I'm drying in plastic bags that I turn inside out every day . Condensation builds up on the plastic and the bags slow the drying process down the last ones I did took 4 or 5 months . About 1/2 the blanks have these mushrooms growing on them .

Some are all ready dry enough they have dried up and fallen off, this is after 6 wks. Within the next few wks. the moisture content should be low enough to deal with the fungus. There are also some large blanks I kept out of the sun and are now on top of my wood pile at the shop I'm hoping the frost will suck a lot of the moisture out without creating cracks in them.

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

Great photos, Bill.  Really shows what the fungus can do.  Hopefully it is causing some nice spaulting inside the wood.

I've had powder post beetles in the house from some slab furniture I made out of hickory.  Really don't care to repeat that experience!

Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.

DaveM
DaveM's picture

So I have got the wood stove in the steel building & have kept a fire fairly steady for about a month now.  The humidity in the building has dropped from the high 70s to the high 40s now.  When I first started burning the stove, there was a cloud of moisture in the building for 2 days. It was actually foggy.  I had to keep opening the doors & windows to exchange the air.  Probably from all the moisture in all the wood I stacked in there. The wood I air dried for about 6 months outside was @ 20 average sampling per my moisture meter.  It is down to 14 average now.  Some slightly higher, some slightly lower.  Looks like the idea has some merit.  Not to mention it's so much nicer working in the shop now. 

DaveM
DaveM's picture

By the way......where is the Fall - Winter issue of Norwood News ?

bcloutier
bcloutier's picture

Hey fellow sawyers, I am noticing that my well stickered pine boards and beams that were sawn in the last month are developing blue stain, not all but some. It's all undercover in the barn with lots of ventilation. This has been one rainy month of June, every other day it seems. Is this the contributing factor or is it the fungus I have been reading about. Any solutions other than running a fan on the stack. Will bleaching the boards help? Thanks for any comments or help you may have.

smithbr
smithbr's picture

Were they fresh logs when sawn, or had they been down for a while?  My experience is, if you saw them fresh, no problem.  If they sit around in log form, it's a race against both the blue stain and the pine sawyer grubs.  Probably depends on the weather at that point, the bugs are more active in the sun, but I expect the fungus that causes the blue stain is more active in the wet.  Pine and spruce are now on my "saw immediately, or don't accept the log" list - I'm sawing 30-odd spruce poles that have been in the yard for almost a year, and they're a mess due to grubs.  Same with the single pine log from the same cutting, grubs and blue stain as well.  It'll be okay for the back wall of the shed, though.  My guess is, if the fungus is already in the bark when you saw, the blade itself will spread the fungus across the surface.  Not sure what would help then, maybe pine sol as a disinfectant?  Just speculation.

If you sawed fresh logs and you've got blue stain, then it's got to be storage, but I can't suggest what you might do better.

 

bcloutier
bcloutier's picture

smithbr, thanks for your comments. Truly appreciate any advice. I sawed the logs in late April and the pitch was just pissin' out of them so I waited until it hardened a bit, stored them up off the ground on skids for about a month, and started sawing them in late May. I didn't go right at but but sawed a couple mornings a week through the end of  May and all of June. Up until last week, I hadn't noticed any discoloration in the pile which was stickered and in my barn. I thought there was enough ventilation, but didn't have a fan going. We had a ton of rain that week and all of a sudden the mildew came to life in about 3 days time. I have pulled the stack apart now into four stacks, re-stickered and sprayed every board and beam with a bleach mixture. It is helping lighten the stain and killing the mold spores. It'll be OK for my personal use, and I plan on putting a solid color stain over it anyway, so it'll be fine. Just wasn't happy with it 'cause the boards were real nice, some clear stuff, not all, but they looked good for my 1st sawing experience. Didn't have any pine sawyer grubs yet, but I see the adults flying around now. They'll be in the slab pile I bet. As they say, you learn from your mistakes, at least you should! I have...won't do that again. I 'll use fans from now on and sticker better and space better in the stack. I may not do pine in the rainy humid weather again either...save it for fall and winter, which is when I do the firewood, but will squeeze it in somewhere. Thanks again and happy sawing!

smithbr
smithbr's picture

I should have mentioned, the sawyer grubs enter through the bark - so once sawn, make sure you peel all waney edges!  If you do that, you shouldn't see grubs in your planks - but the slabwood will be overrun with them.  I made the mistake of taking some of that slabwood into the house three winters ago for starting wood.  Crunch, crunch, crunch began as soon as the wood thawed. 

bcloutier
bcloutier's picture

Yup, my wife and I were talking about that last night...crunch, crunch of the grubs. We brought some pine into the cellar, the winter before last to split down for kindling. I have been seeing the adults flying all around recently, and I hate it when they land on me, scares the crap outta me with their long antennae!

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

Some blue stained pine is sold for twice as much under the name "denim pine".  No loss in strength, as far as I know.  Around here, it is powder post beetles.  They chew their way out leaving little piles of sawdust behind.  I'm going to start spraying boards with a borax solution.  Kiln should be set up by the end of July.

Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.

bcloutier
bcloutier's picture

Post Oakie, I read about the "blue denim" pine online and the premium price it can bring! Hot damn! I could make some on purpose if I had that market share, but I like my pine on the lighter and clean side. I just finished spaying all the boards both sides and edges with 1:8 ratio Bleach/Sodium Hydroxide solution. It will kill the spores and does lighten it up quite a bit. Happy so far with the results...3 days work but if it works, great! Your kiln will be a nice addition and problem solver, too. Don't know if I'd get into a kiln or not, but best of luck with yours.smiley