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skiman3911
skiman3911's picture
honda gx620...any complain or problem?

i have a honda 20 hp and some people here told me they have alot of complain for this motor...so if some people here have some problem whit the honda gx620 just let us know...i own 1 with a lot of worrk and can t find any problem? its just a great motor i think...

and...can i know whats the problem with the kohler?

Robert in W. Mi.
Robert in W. Mi.'s picture

skiman3911 wrote:
i have a honda 20 hp and some people here told me they have alot of complain for this motor...so if some people here have some problem whit the honda gx620 just let us know...i own 1 with a lot of worrk and can t find any problem? its just a great motor i think...
and...can i know whats the problem with the kohler?

Honda builds good motors, Kohler builds good motors, and the B&S Vanguard is also a good motor... BUT, all brands of motors have had there problems from time to time and some companys are better at taking care of those problems than others.

Honda has a reputation of being a huge pain in the @$$ if you need WARR. work... B&S has a reputation of being a very good company to deal with.

I remember one Honda 20 owner here, that his motor (with low hrs.) broke it's crank. He had one heck of a time getting Honda to back it, and replace the motor. Then there's those cold weather stalling problems that JP mentioned too...

When the first Kohler twin, OHV models came out, my local dealer was getting them back all too often with broken valves. Some with only 6 hrs. on them. Kohler replaced the motors for those customers, but non the less, it did happen... Also, Kohlers have a reputation of using more fuel than a Honda or Vanguard.

Chit happens, and when it comes to the "top of the line" small gas engines like the ones mentioned here, it's important that the company will work with the owner or dealer, and back there product.

Like i said, some companys are better at that than others...

Robert

LM2000 with bed extensions, Vanguard 23, optional log post, log turner, hydraulic toe boards, cam dogs, stainless bunk covers, JPT setworks

chuckthehunter
chuckthehunter's picture

Hi,

I have a Honda 20hp on my LumberMate Mark III from 1997. I am the second owner running it 1-2 weekends per month. I have never had any kind of problem with it. Other than normal maintenance and a voltage regulator nothing has been done to it.

Chuck
Log2Lumber LLC
http://log2lumber.googlepages.com

real cedar
real cedar's picture

I also have LM 2000 with honda 20hp used nearly every week,never had any problems,just runs sweet as a nut all the time.

Bill Ford
Bill Ford's picture

I have a problem with a Honda GX620, 20HP v-twin on a NorthStar 1300W Generator used when the power is out.  About 10 years old, but probably less than 1000 hours. 

Engine runs good, new plugs, carb cleaned, valves adjusted, plenty of oil but after 10, 20 minutes, sometimes longer, both plugs go intermittent, afterfires through muffler, and ultimately goes dead!!!

I determined it was both plugs missing at the same time by putting "spark checkers" on both plugs. In my mind this indicated the Engine Stop Diode circuit was intermittent or bad. If it was a bad coil probably only one plug would miss, certainly not both coils bad and miss at the same time. 

In addition, with the Engine Stop Diode circuit removed the thing seems to run fine, it ran for over an hour.  The carb has a fuel shutoff solenoid which will stop the engine, but I felt stopping the spark was the best way to turn it off.

Ordered and installed a new Engine Stop Diode today, $47 bucks including shipping.  The damn thing does the same thing!!

Anybody have any ideas??

 

Bill
Bill's picture

Bill my rule is never touch anything that's working. Was there a problem before cleaning the carb and adjusting the valves? Back firing sounds like a possible timing issue? Maybe just replace the plug wires once they warm up it may be causing the problem trial and error with the least expensive first.

Bill Ford
Bill Ford's picture

Bill, thanks for the advice, but the problem was what led to all the checks and adjustments (and parts changes) that I have done up to now.  With the engine running with the Engine Stop Diode wire disconnected, I found that the Ignition Switch Circuit would go intermittent.  Got a new IG Circuit coming, maybe that will be the final fix.  I guess if I had continued troubleshooting, I would not have replaced the Engine Stop Diode. Good lesson for me to learn!!

Banjo1275
Banjo1275's picture

I just came over this topic while doing more research. I have been fighting what sounds like very similar issues with my GX620 on a Landpride Treker side by side for many years, especially in cold weather. Every now and then I get inspired and have a go at it again. I thought it was just running lean because it would often work acceptably with the choke partially pulled out. A replacement carb didn't seem to help when I installed it first 6+ years ago. In the end I put the factory one back on. Recently I did more digging and found out there was an adjuster on the new carb (unlike the factory one that is locked), re-installed it, adjusted the air bleed mixture, and all seemed good for a day or two. But it still seems to fade. I had ordered new coils before I had a go at the carb, figuring that the misfire/backfire must be ignition based. Put them on, but it didn't seem to change anything.

So after continuing looking I was wondering about the diode pack. My next step would be to disconnect it at the coils, but this is a quite the pain due to the way the Landpride designers shoe horned the motor in. Also on my motor I think the voltage regulator is no longer working, so often the battery voltage is 14/15 volts. I wonder if that could either be affecting something, or caused the diodes to fail. The motor does seem to be fouling plugs now all of a sudden. Again not sure on cause and effect here. Perhaps the mixture is now a bit rich, or it's intermittent ignition that's causing them to load up. If I take them out and clean them up, all starts to run well again (for a while). Landpride did make a cold weather mod that I got that blanks off more of the top of the motor, and had a lame attempt to draw warm(er) air from over the exhaust into the air intake. When I installed it, it never really seemed to make any difference.

I had been wondering if it was a valve/compression issue. I haven't checked it yet because my compression gauge was too big to fit in the spark plug hole, and thanks to the miserable design by Landpride the only way to check the right cylinder compression would be to remove the whole motor! I had to make a custom wrench just to be able to change the spark plug! However, both plugs have now fouled so I'm guessing that is now less likely. What plugs are people using? I have tried a few, and a recent manual from Honda that I found online suggested NGK 5077 ZGR5A plugs, which were referred to as 'winter plugs'. I was hopeful that this might help, but new ones didn't seem to change anything that I could notice.

So this is all a long way to say that I'd sure appreciate knowing if anyone else has had some similar experiences, or has suggestions on what might be going on.

thanks in advance, Andrew

Bill
Bill's picture
The engine is running to cold cut a round piece of card board & tape it over the recoil starter housing. Once I did that on my mill cold weather never bothered it.
DavidM
DavidM's picture
When you say plugs are fouled, can you tell if they are fuel fouled or oil fouled? If they’re fuel fouled it could be either ignition or air/fuel mixture - oil fouled would mean either valve seals or cylinder wear. I had a Honda motor on a mower that kept fouling plugs for years - finally got so bad that I figured out that there was a casting defect in the intake port that was making it run so lean it wouldn’t burn all the fuel - had to do a valve job on it when I tore it down. Odd thing is that plugs never had any light deposits on them when I pulled them. Always just looked wet and fouled. Anyhow once intake was tight it’s never given me any more trouble.
Banjo1275
Banjo1275's picture

Thanks for the replies. I've been working at this since I posted, with some success and failures. At times it's run better/just fine, other times not so much. The plugs seem to foul quickly. They are black and sooty. Usually if I clean them up and put them back in the engine runs OK/better. I also taped up the air intake. Just used duct tape.

Yesterday it really started running badly, lots of back popping through the carb, even a flame the odd time (when I had the air intake off). BTW, this machine has a big remote air cleaner, and I checked it is clean.

I did a lot of playing around adjusting the carb, trying different governor spring locations, cleaning plugs, checking spark, etc. without any success. I did notice that the oil breather line into the intake bowl seemed to have a good bit of air flow (have no idea if this is normal), and did seem to be discharging something. I tried just disconnecting it, but that didn't change anything.

I then figured I should check the oil and the level was high (it had seemed normal when I had checked previous times). Decided to drain it and about double the listed capacity came out. The oil that came out seemed mighty thin, but didn't seem to have any water in it. So I'm now suspecting that this could be part of the (immediate at least) problem. The only source of more liquid is fuel, so I'm guessing somehow it must be leaking through into the crankcase somehow. Given that this is an OVH engine, I'm thinking this points to a ring problem.

I dug out my old compression tester and it showed 60psi, and leaked down to 25 in about 10 seconds. However, this could be the gauge as I had to do a home swage on the hose to head fitting as the little hose clamp I had been using was too bulky to clear the shroud around the spark plug. This could be low, one video I found of a compression test was getting 120psi. Unfortunately I can't test the right cylinder because the way the engine is installed there is almost no room around that spark plug (a terrible design, I had to make a custom tool to fit the spark plug). A few days ago I gave up and removed the handbrake warning light switch that was blocking some access to the plug so I could change/check the plug more easily. But there's still not room to fit the compression gauge in (at least easily last night in the cold and dark).

I took the filter off, and was sure I had a couple of spares around, but can't find them (should have checked first). They were last seen before a move I now realize. So I'm going to head out now and get one, and see if having the right oil level will at least get it back to running. I kind of need to use the machine to get firewood, and it's supposed to be -25 tonight! The filter on it is a NAPA 51334 (looks like a Wix #), seems a Fram PH3593/PH3593A also matches, and is in stock at CT. Anyone have oil filter experiences?

I am kind of fearing that this could be an ring issue. The motor does need to turn over for maybe 5-10 seconds (or more) before it fires up. Warm it will often go instantly. Or still some sort of intake manifold leak, which could explain the mixture issues.

As always, would appreciate any input and experiences.

Thanks, Andrew

PS. Was going to add some pictures, but need to see how to do that on this forum. I'll get this posted without them for now.

DavidM
DavidM's picture
If you’re getting that much fuel in your oil it can only be coming from the carburetor overflowing - either float is bad or needle and seat leaking. This over flow would also account for plug fouling from excess fuel in the intake. I wouldn’t run the motor until it fixed and oil replaced but If it was mine I wouldn’t give up on it until it’s been run with a good carburetor for a while. In the past I have seen engines that have been flooded with fuel having the piston rings “washed out “ with gas and run low compression. Once fuel mixture is right the rings often will reseat and compression will come back up. Looks like you’ve figured out your problem though. Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.
Banjo1275
Banjo1275's picture

I got a filter yesterday and changed the oil. Started up but still backfiring and/or popping through the intake, especially once it's under some load. I can swap back to the original carb just to see if that changes anything (I'm not sure it will, as I can't seem to notice any difference when I swapped before). But for the fuel to get into the oil it has to be going past the rings though right? Also, is a reasonable air flow out of the crankcase breather normal or not? I presume that if there's more blow by then the crankcase pressure will be higher. I guess one way or another, if the plugs are fouling then there's too right a mixture one way or another. I put on new coils just to be sure, and that didn't change anything. One of those neon light spark plug testers always seems to be flashing, even when the engine would die out if you opened the throttle too quickly. I have to say that I'm fearing that it's either a ring/compression problem and/or an air intake leak. Both plugs are fouling (not necessarily at the same time), which does make me wonder a bit about the rings, as it does seem a bit strange that the same thing would happen on both cylinders.

DavidM
DavidM's picture
If your carburetor float/needle valve is not sealing, fuel level in the bowl will go higher than it should and fuel will start dumping through the main jet and will get pulled through the bowl vent back to the crankcase. Your rings may not necessarily be bad - poor compression is one of the symptoms of a carburetor over flowing fuel into the cylinder causing the rings to “wash out”. Before you give up on the rings I would get the fuel dump problem fixed and run the engine for a while before I gave up on the rings. They may very well reseat when the pistons dry all of the excess fuel out. If the motor is hard to start due to low compression you can put a small amount of transmission fluid in the cylinders to get it started, then burn it off once the motor warms up. Hopefully it’s just a fuel problem.
Rob2457
Rob2457's picture

What's that machine got for a fuel pump? Pulse type?

Rob2457
Rob2457's picture

What's that machine got for a fuel pump? Pulse type?

Bill
Bill's picture
I agree with David , sounds like your float is possibly saturated or ? or not seating properly. this will cause smoking and fuel in the oil.
Bill
Bill's picture

Bill I once bought a $140 coil for my welder because it wouldn't start and an engine repair guy told me that's what I needed. Coil is still on the shelf 10 years later turns out the engine was flooded blush. One of the many times I didn't follow my own advice.

scottie44
scottie44's picture

I have a Honda on my LM 29 and run it a lot for the last 1 1/2 years.  Starts first pull even when below freezing. 

Ran my mill yesterday and had a plainer by the mill for finishing boards.  No electricity by my mill so brought a Honda generator for current.  This generators has over 9,000 hours and still runs great and starts right up.

Bill
Bill's picture

Bill let us know if the GI curcuit was the problem I have a honda generator & 3 other honda motors so maybe your fix will save a lot of fooling around us one of these days.

Gtspud2
Gtspud2's picture

Hey guys would anyone have a gx620 for parts I'm after a few parts just cant seem to find them.