There is a lesson in that, and we'll probably never know the full story. The moral, though is that it takes more than hard work to make a go of it in the sawmill business. Building up without credit is slow, and in some cases may be impractical, but borrowing has its risks, too. As soon as you take out a loan, you'd better be ready to be 100% business.
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
I am new to this milling to, but I know some other guys here close to me who charge 40.00 and hour, and that is what I am going to do. My mill is portable with one 4 foot extension and another 2 foot extension. So, if I go to them OVER 10 miles I will charge the going rate for mileage, plus I WILL NOT leave home for less than 20 logs! I just milled here at my house this week and figured that I was milling around 140 board feet an hour, and with time I will get faster. So with that said, that comes out to .29 cents a board foot. If they want to do some arguing over that, I will remind them to go to Lowes or Home Depot and see how much they can buy there for what I will be charging. And of course dirty logs and ruined blades are extra! Plus if I take a helper I will get 50.00 an hour, or they can supply the helper. However I prefer my own because he knows what to do when with every move. So I explain to the customer that a new slower helper will just cost them extra anyway! So far, they seem happy with that.
Be careful about basing your cost on that of others. As one person put it, competing on price can be a race to the bottom. There are people around here who charge $40 or less, but they are retired and looking for a way to make a little extra money, while I'm trying to make a living. I don't know how business is for them, but I know that I have a lot of repeat business for my portable sawmill at $60/hr because I can get good straight boards, even out of ugly logs. If you focus on quality and take on those jobs that no one else wants, you can come out ahead. I never turn down a job based on the size of the job or the distance. I charge $1.50/ mile (each way), plus a $30 set up fee. I have driven over 100 miles for just a few logs, and both the customer and I were very pleased with the outcome. Set a price that makes you money, and let the customer determine whether it is a good value.
Part of the value, by the way, is giving the customer what he wants, which isn't always what he asks for. New customers get my lesson on air drying lumber, and either buy blocking and stickers from me, or have me cut them out of their logs. I also find out what the end product will be, so that I can figure out the dimensions of the milled lumber so they wind up with what they want after drying and surfacing.
As far as help, do you charge enough extra for a second person to offset his wages? Do you have liability insurance that covers your help (hired help or customer)?
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
Mr. Oakie, I have just started so you are telling me things that I really do need to know. Yes I will have liability insurance on my helper and no I will never ever turn down a job. but here's the deal on the helper. If they can provide a helper that is decent, then I wont need mine and I can lower the rate some. But yes, I will have to base my rate on the help I will need. Oh yeah I can do it myself cheaper, but it will take longer, so it is as broad as it is long there. How do you feel about this?
Depends on the helper. If he is good and you want to use him on a regular basis, you may need to be consistent or risk losing him to other employment. This means charging for the added expense and using him even for jobs that you might otherwise do yourself. Then you need to look at the overall cost of your helper, just as you do for the sawmill. How much is the insurance? Any withholding, workman's comp, or other expense? How much time to you spend on paperwork for your helper? If you pay $10/hr, you should charge about $15 extra for his time. Then figure the % gain in productivity. If you charge $50/hour without the helper and $65/hr with, is your productivity increased by more than 30%? Is he someone that you will be able to trust to run the mill and/or sharpen blades? Hope this helps. Good luck.
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
HMMM, yeah, he and I are both retired from a local electric co-op, so we are both good with working the hours we can without getting so worn out that we make mental mistakes on the mill. But he is very good help, and he has helped here on our farm with my dad since the early 1960's. So we work great together. Guess we will both be considered, part time on this anyway. I realize I wont be able to use him on all jobs and as time goes on, I may even get fast enough as to where I wont even need any help!. We could only hope huh? We sawed about 6 hours this week and cut almost 800 board feet. I will say when this mill is tuned and set right, you can whiz some lumber off of it! Mr. Oakie when I learn how, I will post some video to you, but I just have to figure out how its done! LOL Thanks for the info, and I think you and I are going to enjoy communicating on here! Will chat again soon!!
I pay my helper By the foot $.05 pbf it works out good for both of us that way. I have a very good man that works hard and makes a fair wage. The more lumber we put out the more $ he makes it works out to between 12 and 17 an hour sometimes more. I average about 3000 bf a day so he is making about 150 Average a day. On days that I am not sawing lumber I put him to work cutting firewood. If you have someone good you have to keep him in work or he will go somewhere else. Also remember that the tail sawyer job is very physically demanding so you need a strong young back. I grew up tail sawing on a circle mill with my dad and at my age now I would be a hurting unit. So if you want to do this as a profession you need a man that can keep up and keep the lumber out of your way so the saw is not sitting waiting for the next cut.
Mr. Oakie and KC, it took me all of 5 minutes after I had my mill set up on the first log to realize I had made a mistake in not getting at least the log loader and the turner. I now have that. A
little later, I will add the rest!!
Samuel
I feel your pain. My solution was to make a swing arm . Mounted a 12 volt battery to power up the 2000 lb pull winch. I use winch to par-buckle logs off a log bunk and to turn log on the mill. No I don't use gapples or hooks. No need for that. I'm an ole cowboy that understand the princple of the "dally". Three times around the log or timber cant is what works for me.
Oh yeah.. The cable on a winch is for straight line pulls. Once you start bending the cable she gets kinky..After kinky she becomes snarley, tangle up mess. Lester took the messed up steel cable off and replaced it with a high tensile rope line.
I set the winch swing arm over the center of log cable drop or plumb of line will roll cant not just pull against the log supports I use a separate rope to dally and hook winch line to that.
2000 Norwood Lumbermate Mark IV and Lester (Sawwood}
J.R., How about some photos of the swing arm when you get a chance? Next time I replace a cable, I'm going to try the Amsteel blue rope. Looks like pretty good stuff. Parbuckling is an easy, efficient way to roll a log onto the sawmill, as long as you remember that the cable goes from the winch OVER the log. Every time I describe it, someone asks why I don't use two cables. Usually after they see how it works, they understand.
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
Cant Hook to roll log. Parbuckling by winch to roll log. One for brawn, grunt and groan. One for mindless push of button. What ever works to get'er done.
2000 Norwood Lumbermate Mark IV and Lester (Sawwood}
I've been going to a gentleman who charges $35 an hour for several years, and have been happy to pay that. I always work with him to because I liked the sawing and wanted to learn and also to keep the hours down. Now that have my own mill, I am planning to charge the same, although the first few customers may get more than 60 minutes in their hours while I learn my mill and how best to saw.
No way I could stay in business at $35/hr. Are you figuring the cost of the sawmill, insurance, taxes, and all the time involved in the business (including paperwork)? Keep us posted on how things go for you. Whatever you charge, enjoy the job!
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
"Wanda and Arky?" I don't.
Herein lies photo's of Wanda. Bank Owned. Sad news and comments. A good read
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,66280.0.html
What is? If I had a million dollars, I would be a sawyer untilI fate left me bent busted and broke?
2000 Norwood Lumbermate Mark IV and Lester (Sawwood}
There is a lesson in that, and we'll probably never know the full story. The moral, though is that it takes more than hard work to make a go of it in the sawmill business. Building up without credit is slow, and in some cases may be impractical, but borrowing has its risks, too. As soon as you take out a loan, you'd better be ready to be 100% business.
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
I am new to this milling to, but I know some other guys here close to me who charge 40.00 and hour, and that is what I am going to do. My mill is portable with one 4 foot extension and another 2 foot extension. So, if I go to them OVER 10 miles I will charge the going rate for mileage, plus I WILL NOT leave home for less than 20 logs! I just milled here at my house this week and figured that I was milling around 140 board feet an hour, and with time I will get faster. So with that said, that comes out to .29 cents a board foot. If they want to do some arguing over that, I will remind them to go to Lowes or Home Depot and see how much they can buy there for what I will be charging. And of course dirty logs and ruined blades are extra! Plus if I take a helper I will get 50.00 an hour, or they can supply the helper. However I prefer my own because he knows what to do when with every move. So I explain to the customer that a new slower helper will just cost them extra anyway! So far, they seem happy with that.
Be careful about basing your cost on that of others. As one person put it, competing on price can be a race to the bottom. There are people around here who charge $40 or less, but they are retired and looking for a way to make a little extra money, while I'm trying to make a living. I don't know how business is for them, but I know that I have a lot of repeat business for my portable sawmill at $60/hr because I can get good straight boards, even out of ugly logs. If you focus on quality and take on those jobs that no one else wants, you can come out ahead. I never turn down a job based on the size of the job or the distance. I charge $1.50/ mile (each way), plus a $30 set up fee. I have driven over 100 miles for just a few logs, and both the customer and I were very pleased with the outcome. Set a price that makes you money, and let the customer determine whether it is a good value.
Part of the value, by the way, is giving the customer what he wants, which isn't always what he asks for. New customers get my lesson on air drying lumber, and either buy blocking and stickers from me, or have me cut them out of their logs. I also find out what the end product will be, so that I can figure out the dimensions of the milled lumber so they wind up with what they want after drying and surfacing.
As far as help, do you charge enough extra for a second person to offset his wages? Do you have liability insurance that covers your help (hired help or customer)?
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
Mr. Oakie, I have just started so you are telling me things that I really do need to know. Yes I will have liability insurance on my helper and no I will never ever turn down a job. but here's the deal on the helper. If they can provide a helper that is decent, then I wont need mine and I can lower the rate some. But yes, I will have to base my rate on the help I will need. Oh yeah I can do it myself cheaper, but it will take longer, so it is as broad as it is long there. How do you feel about this?
Depends on the helper. If he is good and you want to use him on a regular basis, you may need to be consistent or risk losing him to other employment. This means charging for the added expense and using him even for jobs that you might otherwise do yourself. Then you need to look at the overall cost of your helper, just as you do for the sawmill. How much is the insurance? Any withholding, workman's comp, or other expense? How much time to you spend on paperwork for your helper? If you pay $10/hr, you should charge about $15 extra for his time. Then figure the % gain in productivity. If you charge $50/hour without the helper and $65/hr with, is your productivity increased by more than 30%? Is he someone that you will be able to trust to run the mill and/or sharpen blades? Hope this helps. Good luck.
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
HMMM, yeah, he and I are both retired from a local electric co-op, so we are both good with working the hours we can without getting so worn out that we make mental mistakes on the mill. But he is very good help, and he has helped here on our farm with my dad since the early 1960's. So we work great together. Guess we will both be considered, part time on this anyway. I realize I wont be able to use him on all jobs and as time goes on, I may even get fast enough as to where I wont even need any help!. We could only hope huh? We sawed about 6 hours this week and cut almost 800 board feet. I will say when this mill is tuned and set right, you can whiz some lumber off of it! Mr. Oakie when I learn how, I will post some video to you, but I just have to figure out how its done! LOL Thanks for the info, and I think you and I are going to enjoy communicating on here! Will chat again soon!!
I pay my helper By the foot $.05 pbf it works out good for both of us that way. I have a very good man that works hard and makes a fair wage. The more lumber we put out the more $ he makes it works out to between 12 and 17 an hour sometimes more. I average about 3000 bf a day so he is making about 150 Average a day. On days that I am not sawing lumber I put him to work cutting firewood. If you have someone good you have to keep him in work or he will go somewhere else. Also remember that the tail sawyer job is very physically demanding so you need a strong young back. I grew up tail sawing on a circle mill with my dad and at my age now I would be a hurting unit. So if you want to do this as a profession you need a man that can keep up and keep the lumber out of your way so the saw is not sitting waiting for the next cut.
Thanks kc for some very good advice! Makes lots of sense to do it that way! Hope to hear from you again soon. Thanks
KC, yeh, I know what you mean. Hydraulics on the sawmill are looking better every day!
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
Mr. Oakie and KC, it took me all of 5 minutes after I had my mill set up on the first log to realize I had made a mistake in not getting at least the log loader and the turner. I now have that. A
little later, I will add the rest!!
Samuel
I feel your pain. My solution was to make a swing arm . Mounted a 12 volt battery to power up the 2000 lb pull winch. I use winch to par-buckle logs off a log bunk and to turn log on the mill. No I don't use gapples or hooks. No need for that. I'm an ole cowboy that understand the princple of the "dally". Three times around the log or timber cant is what works for me.
Oh yeah.. The cable on a winch is for straight line pulls. Once you start bending the cable she gets kinky..After kinky she becomes snarley, tangle up mess. Lester took the messed up steel cable off and replaced it with a high tensile rope line.
I set the winch swing arm over the center of log cable drop or plumb of line will roll cant not just pull against the log supports I use a separate rope to dally and hook winch line to that.
2000 Norwood Lumbermate Mark IV and Lester (Sawwood}
J.R., How about some photos of the swing arm when you get a chance? Next time I replace a cable, I'm going to try the Amsteel blue rope. Looks like pretty good stuff. Parbuckling is an easy, efficient way to roll a log onto the sawmill, as long as you remember that the cable goes from the winch OVER the log. Every time I describe it, someone asks why I don't use two cables. Usually after they see how it works, they understand.
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
yeah, your not winching a log, your just rolling it.
Cant Hook to roll log. Parbuckling by winch to roll log. One for brawn, grunt and groan. One for mindless push of button. What ever works to get'er done.
2000 Norwood Lumbermate Mark IV and Lester (Sawwood}
I've been going to a gentleman who charges $35 an hour for several years, and have been happy to pay that. I always work with him to because I liked the sawing and wanted to learn and also to keep the hours down. Now that have my own mill, I am planning to charge the same, although the first few customers may get more than 60 minutes in their hours while I learn my mill and how best to saw.
Rob in Ottawa, Ontario
Good for you Rob what ever you do have fun $35 is very reasonable.
Bill
No way I could stay in business at $35/hr. Are you figuring the cost of the sawmill, insurance, taxes, and all the time involved in the business (including paperwork)? Keep us posted on how things go for you. Whatever you charge, enjoy the job!
Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.
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