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garyrhack
garyrhack's picture
Vanguard motor

Need help, I have the HD 36 Norwood sawmill with 23 horsepower vanguard engine purchased back in March. To date, I have worked about 2 hours with this sawmill and everything was fine. I moved the sawmill out to the house and took a week of vacation this week to saw all the logs collected over the past few months.  My problem - The vanguard engine will not start.  It is turning over fine with the battery but will not start.  Things I have done:  Checked both spark plugs - firing OK. Checked all connection including the emergency stop button.  Disconnected the emergency stop button and all wires dealing with it. Did all the troubleshooting from the book and nothing.  Drained the gas and placed new gas. Checked fuel lines and feul pump all working fine.  We have exhausted all possibilities and stumped.  Does anyone have any suggestion on how to get the motor running?  This is really crazy as I have never seen anything like it. 

Thanks Gary

r.garrison1
r.garrison1's picture

If you squirt a little starting fluid or gasoline in the air intake, does it fire? If so, it could be a plugged needle valve.

I had a problem with my B&S engine sputtering and running poorly, I took off the bowl, the float, and ran a tip cleaner through the needle valve. No problems since then.

If you don't have a tip cleaner, take a bit of stranded wire, pull out one strand (about 4 inches worth), It should fit down the needle valve.

Bill
Bill's picture

Make sure the oil is full low oil shut down may be the cause.

garyrhack
garyrhack's picture

It’s fixed. Took to a dealer and the carburetor was clogged with debris (white flacks) in the new gas tank.  He took the carburetor apart and cleaned it good and we emptied the gas and cleaned the tank. Had to be from the manufacturer of the gas tank. What a pain in the ***. Spent two days of my vacation dealing with this. Thanks for your comments.

steveh
steveh's picture
I'm looking through back posts to see if I can find a solution for the white flakes in my Vangaurd 23 fuel tank too. Every single time I use it (I've had it since 2017) after it sits for a bit, these same white flakes show up and clog my fuel filter. I've replaced the filter and cleaned out the tank several times...it runs fine after that until the next time I use it and they form again. It's never had anything but ethanol free gas in the tank. Sometimes the mill is outside, sometimes it's under cover so I doubt it's a sun on the tank problem. I've looked everywhere for an answer to this problem and there does not seem to be a consensus on what the problem is (i.e. "revenge" powder, only happens once on new tanks, no idea, speculation, etc.). I'm pretty sure it's a reaction between the plastic and the gas but, wow, that's a serious design flaw. I have many small engines and have *never* had this problem show up in any other machine. Sure, I can bleed the tank every time I use it but I shouldn't have to do that. Any ideas of what is causing this and how to stop it? I'm probably going to just replace the tank with a metal one if I can't find a reasonable solution.
OL' Purple Pete
OL' Purple Pete's picture

GAS MOTORS = needed to run is gas,sparkand water unless air cooled

DIESEL MOTORS = needed to run diesel fuel,air,water,again unless air cooled.

As my late father told over & over SIMPLE.So I remmeber KISS =KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID smileycheekylaugh And I never forgot

I check plug for spark and see if it wet with gas leads to flooding,check cab if it got gas,none means pugged line to tank,check fuel filter and check to see if there is gas.Cause it may have been evporated or stolen.Diesel pretty much the same .Simple things COST money.He toled me to look for the poroblem OR GO BACK TO SCHOOL.So I looked for problem and fixed it myself.Easy to read book on the motor.Or nowaday GOOGLE IT.B&S motors are simple if you can't find the problem GOOGLE IT,SIMPLE.Ilearned from my Dad when I was just 6 years old that what makes a motor run.And I never forgot it.We nevedr had internet just trial &error and listen to other that had that problem.

gerry69
gerry69's picture

hi, i bought a hd 36 with a 23 hp vangard b&s a couple of months ago, everything was great at first  but after awhile it started to spudder and buck when it was idling .

now it takes forever to start , sometimes up to an hour but once it starts it runs perfect , then if i shut it down for an hour i have to go through the whole process again. 

Ive changed the plugs , flushed the tank  .it has lots of spark and is getting gas . 

Today i took the old spark plugs and cleaned them up, put them in and it started up right away but after 10 minutes or soit started to act up again , i have only cut around 8000

feet with this mill , does anyone have any idea what my problem could be 

Thanks

Gerry

r.garrison1
r.garrison1's picture

I would suspect the fuel may have caught something in the intake. Maybe take the fuel intake apart, make certain the float is good, and the needle valve isn't plugged?

I always run higher grade fuel in mine (with one exception, where someone gave me lower grade fuel even though I asked for premium).

sawman41
sawman41's picture

I have a new HD36 with the Vanguard 23.  First use we would get a backfire at the finish of a cut and release of handle.  Called tech support, was told to use Non-Ethanol gas.  We made the switch and are having the same problem.  We have about 35 hours on the mill and if we do not come out of the cut and release the throttle slowly we get one some times a double back fire.  This does not seem correct for a new motor.  I am going to call tech support again.  Wondering if anyone else is having or has had this problem?

 

 

DavidM
DavidM's picture

If cleaning the plugs helped for a little while, I would suspect flooding.  I have not had any problems with my Vanguard motor, but had a Vanguard motor on a riding lawnmower that flooded every time I shut it off.  Ended up being the electric shutoff valve in the carburetor bowl.  I would get the Briggs and Stratton dealer involved as it sounds like you’re still under warranty.  Hope you get it ironed out soon - sucks to be down with mechanical problems.  As Mr Garrison suggested I would only run a good grade of fuel.  I took to only using ethanol free fuel in all of my small engines after getting water in my fuel a couple of times.  Haven’t had fuel system failure since. 

RLawson
RLawson's picture

Hello.  I am new to the sawmill biz, but I had a lawn service for 19 years.  All our machines had Vanguards.  There is an electric solenoid on the bottom of the carborator bowl.  It has an automatic shut off there.  You probaby pulled one of those wires when you moved it.  I hope this helps.  Happy sawing!

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

One thing that I've found helps eliminate backfiring of the Vangard on my sawmill is to release the throttle just before finishing the cut so the momentum carries the blade through the last bit of the cut.  That way, the blade is slowing down the engine, rather than the engine slowing down the blade.  It takes a few tries to get a feel for it.

Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.

DavidM
DavidM's picture

I tried Post Oakie’s trick of letting off the throttle at the end of the cut and I stopped backfiring.  Just takes a little practice to remember to do it. 

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately go to full throttle  

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately go to full throttle  

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately go to full throttle  

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately go to full throttle  

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately go to full throttle  

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately go to full throttle  

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately go to full throttle  

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately go to full throttle  

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately go to full throttle  

Steve Mauro
Steve Mauro's picture

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram of the the throttle linkage with set up instruction?   Took apart to clean carb and know it immediately goes to full throttle.

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

A new record for repeat posts!  Which Vangard do you have-- the older version with the detached plastic fuel tank or the newer one with the inegrated metal fuel tank?  I have the older version, and will post a photo, if that would help.

Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement.

steves jet
steves jet's picture

having the same issue. vangard23 / with the plastic fuel tank. any help would be great.

gerry69
gerry69's picture
my 23hp vanguard motor just blew on my mill ,it really never really was that great always bugs , do anyone have a suggestion for a good replacement engine for my mill ,thanks , gerry
Dono
Dono's picture

I have had some real issues with the Vanguard 18hp. Third one is in the shop in under a year. That one was right from Briggs with a throttle already installed. TinyTach had the rpms at 3500 and after 11 hours is just doesn't want to run. rpms are 2000 max and it will run for a minute or so then just die. That one is in the shop now and I am looking at replacing it with a Kohler CH620.

welbus
welbus's picture
The HD38 has the option of either the Vanguard 23hp or the Honda iGX800. So obviously, the Honda is interchangable with it.